an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

As Some of the Choosing Hats Gang Have Decided to Show Up….

…..I’ll re-post a challenge to Chris Bolt that first went unanswered back in November

1. Prove that gods exist,
2. prove that your version of your particular god is the ‘right’ one,
3. prove that I believe in your particular version of your particular god,
4. prove that Jesus Christ existed,
5. prove that he was the son of your version of your particular god,
6. prove that I believe that he was the son of your particular god,
7. read my mind to understand my true feelings towards this individual (if you’ve been able to successfully fulfill the previous 6 steps)

This was in response to Chris claiming that I ‘hate’ his ‘god’ – oddly he never responded. I wonder if he’s got some evidence yet?

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18 thoughts on “As Some of the Choosing Hats Gang Have Decided to Show Up….

  1. He is probably trying to find a space in his bible that would accept him writing in his answers in crayon. Sadly those Pre-schooler crayons are so large at the tip they don’t quite look the same as the print in the actual bible… Hey I got an idea, he can grab one of those Children’s Bibles that you used to see on late night infomercials… that always seemed to bother me, why would they market a product for kids to insomniacs and drug addicts? Or are Christian children predisposed to insomnia (due to fear of God coming out of their closet or from under their bed for having “impure dreams”) and drug abuse (so that they can truly hear the word of their god)?

  2. Bobby McGee on said:

    I would point out that your reply boils down to, “I can’t hate what I don’t believe even exists,” but it’s perfectly possible to hate what doesn’t exist. You certainly can hate Santa Claus, or the Grinch, or Voldemort, or Darth Vader.

    • Alex Botten on said:

      Speak for yourself

      • Bobby McGee on said:

        Brilliant reply! I am crushed under the weight of your logic, and now realize that it is impossible to have hatred for fictional characters. Have you considered publishing your brilliant argument?

        You could title it, “Speak for yourself,” and the abstract could say, “Speak for yourself.” I suppose your bibliography would refer to other intellectual milestones like, “I know you are, but what am I?” and, “I’m rubber, and you’re glue!”

        Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I merely pointed out that it’s possible to hate a fictional character. Feel free to rebut, but preferably you’ll use arguments you didn’t learn in kindergarten.

      • My reply was short because that is all there was to say – I have never, in my entire life, hated a fictional character. That you have speaks volumes about your failure at discerning reality from fantasy…..which, if you’re a Christian, shouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.

      • Bobby McGee on said:

        Are you reading impaired, Alex? I didn’t say that you hate any fictional characters, and I didn’t say that I did. I said only that it’s perfectly possible.

        Because it’s possible, your argument is a non sequitur: some guy accuses you of hating Yahweh; you reply, “I don’t believe he exists.” Whether Yahweh does or doesn’t exist, or whether you believe he does or doesn’t, has no bearing on whether or not you hate him.

        You are implicitly saying that you don’t hate him, and I have no reason not to take you at your word. My only interest was to point out the flaw in your logic, which was quite glaring. You appear to be determined to interpret me as either taking your side or Mr. Bott’s, not realizing that it’s a false dichotomy: in a random Internet debate like this one, I don’t have to side with EITHER ninny.

      • And I said I don’t think it is possible to hate a fictional character, unless you have trouble working out what is real and what isn’t.

        “My only interest was to point out the flaw in your logic, which was quite glaring.”

        …and yet you did no such thing, merely asserting that you think that I CAN hate a non-existent or fictional character, and then throwing a few insults around.

        So, to respond in kind – tell me, do you find being a supercilious prick helps you with the ladies?

    • Bobby McGee wrote the following: You certainly can hate Santa Claus, or the Grinch, or Voldemort, or Darth Vader

      But is “hate” really the best word to describe what people feel towards these fictional characters? I don’t think so.

      People hate Hitler, but not Voldemort.

      • Bobby McGee on said:

        Whateverman, “hate” is an extremely broad word. I hate parsnips, and I also hate Hitler. In some sense the two belong in different categories: I’d certainly look at you funny if you asked whether I hate parsnips more, or less, than Hitler, for example. But we English speakers use the word “hate” in both contexts, and a great many others beside.

      • Ok, Bobby, I agree with that. But we were talking about the hatred of things that don’t actually exist. I don’t think I’ve ever heard or seen an adult seriously use the word “hate” in reference to dislike for fantasy characters.

        At a minimum, hatred of Darth Vader would be a third category, with hatred of parsnips being more hateful.

    • Even if that were so, which I think is debatable, you still haven’t proved that *Alex* hates the Christian God, much less whether the Christian God actually exists or not.

  3. So maybe it’s not a good idea to try to say that people “hate” fictional characters to imply that people also “hate” god (which the religious believe is a real person)?

    • Bobby McGee on said:

      Reynold, why not? Lots of people explicitly hate characters they know to be fictional–for example, that’s arguably the primary purpose of soap operas. And people of course hate actual people. It’s perfectly possible for A to hate someone they believe to be real, and for B to hate the same person knowing them to be fictional. Alex attempted to appeal to the implied syllogism:

      * Nothing fictional can be hated.
      * God is fictional.
      * Therefore, God is not hated.

      The argument is invalid because the initial premise is false (and in fact, more than a little silly).

      For some reason Alex now feels the need to defend his illogic with increasing contortions. That’s too bad, since the initial error can easily be dismissed as a bit of hasty writing, but his subsequent determined defense of his error gives the increasing impression that he simply doesn’t do logic very well.

      Which is OK: everyone falls on a bell curve, so it would be unreasonable to expect that all atheists are on the right-hand side of it. It does seem that your less able atheists like to bask in the reflected glory of a Dawkins or a Hitchens, as if agreeing with a genius makes them geniuses themselves.

      • It does seem that your less able atheists like to bask in the reflected glory of a Dawkins or a Hitchens, as if agreeing with a genius makes them geniuses themselves.
        People like that exist everywhere, and in multiple subjects. Philosophy, sports, fashion, science, religion, politics, music, etc.

        It seems to me a bit disingenuous to point it out in atheists without acknowledging its existence elsewhere (re. in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc). More practically, it’s something that happens frequently enough that no one needs to be reminded of it.

      • Bobby McGee on said:

        Whateverman, I said EVERYONE falls on a bell curve. That should be enough to make it obvious that I’m not restricting my observation to atheists, but am also including Christians, Jews, Buddhists, folk singers, and elevator operators.

      • Alex Botten on said:

        *sigh* at no point did I make any claim about logic, I merely pointed out that I do not find it possible to hate fictional characters (having never done so, even when I was a child). I then went on to suggest what Bolt would need to do if he wanted to make the claim that I, Alex Botten, ‘hate Jesus’. If he is not able to do these things then he has no grounds for his claim.

        Feel free to keep on behaving like a massively self important prick though.

      • For one thing:
        Bobby McGee quoting me:
        So maybe it’s not a good idea to try to say that people “hate” fictional characters to imply that people also “hate” god (which the religious believe is a real person)?

        Reynold, why not?
        Because it would imply that we actually believe that your god exists when in actuality we don’t? Besides, none of this has any bearing on whether your god exists or not in the first place.

        Lots of people explicitly hate characters they know to be fictional–for example, that’s arguably the primary purpose of soap operas. And people of course hate actual people. It’s perfectly possible for A to hate someone they believe to be real, and for B to hate the same person knowing them to be fictional
        So you acknowedge at least that athiests don’t actually believe in your god then? If so, that’s more than a lot of your compatriots like to say.

        For another thing, this is just stupid:
        It does seem that your less able atheists like to bask in the reflected glory of a Dawkins or a Hitchens, as if agreeing with a genius makes them geniuses themselves.
        Define “less able” in this context please.

        Though what you describe could explain why people like William Lane Craig are so popular with you guys?

  4. Oy. Get a load of Stan here.

    Please look at the title of the post before reading his reply to me below…
    Me:
    ”After all, look at verse 46 where biblegod is commanding people to love even those who hate one…just how is his killing of babies and pregnant women of those people who allegedly hated him then an example of this “perfect” love?”

    Can you show (prove) that it was not done out of love? Or do you just presume that because to you it resembles human hate, it is therefore nessarily hate in the deity also? Does non-comprehension of the motives of a deity prove that the deity does not exist? Non-existence is what Atheism asserts, and needs to be proved.

    Holy shit.

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