an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

No Wonder Presuppositionalists Are So Full of Shit!

Read these words from their human messiah, Cornelius Van Til –

“If one does not make human knowledge wholly dependent upon the original self-knowledge and consequent revelation of God to man, then man will have to seek knowledge within himself as the final reference point. Then he will have to seek an exhaustive understanding of reality. He will have to hold that if he cannot attain to such an exhaustive understanding of reality he has no true knowledge of anything at all. Either man must then know everything or he knows nothing. This is the dilemma that confronts every form of non-Christian epistemology”

 

Let that sink in. Can you spot the baseless assertion?

“Either man must then know everything or he knows nothing”

Van Til got it dead wrong there, and a whole generation of his fanboys have followed in his error filled footsteps in making this ludicrous claim.

Seriously, in what world does one have to know everything to know anything?? I don’t know everything, but I do know lots and lots of things, which immediately demonstrates that Van Til was talking out of his arse.

Presuppositionalists: making bullshit riddled claims since day one.

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19 thoughts on “No Wonder Presuppositionalists Are So Full of Shit!

  1. Firsties!!!

    HOW do you know what you know, is the question? Could you be wrong about what you claim to know?

    • “Could you be wrong about what you claim to know?”

      No. Even if I only knew ONE thing (that I am thinking), I would still have certainty that I was right.

      Here’s an example for you Dan, I know how to type – the evidence of this is the words you’re reading right now.

      So, if I answer ‘no, I could not be wrong about what I claim to know’, what is the next stage of your script?

      • I Don't Know on said:

        I think “Debunking Atheists” is asking you to explain your epistemology, & I’m guessing that s/he’s hinting that’s the context of the Van Til quote. I gave up trying to understand Van Til, but I find a lot of his students very clear – when they stopped sounding like him.

  2. “Either man must then know everything or he knows nothing”

    I think I’ve described my position to you (directly or indirectly) before this, Alex, but it bears repeating:

    Presuppositionalists refuse to live their lives as if this was true, and that’s a justifiable reason to reject their brand of apologia.

    In order to step outside the front door of their homes, do Dan or Hezekiah require absolute knowledge that a plane wont fall on their heads when they do? Do they require absolute certainty in stock price trends before they invest their money? Do they need divine assurance that they wont get sick before they eat food?

    No.

    The only time they require it is when their religious beliefs are called into question. At all other times, assumption & less-than-absolute knowledge are perfectly acceptable.

    Dishonest fucks.

    • HOW do you know what you know

      How do you define “know”, Dan?

      • Some definitions for you:

        knowledge (n)–the fact or state of knowing; the perception of fact or truth; clear and certain mental apprehension.

        know (v)–1. To perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty. 2. To be cognizant or aware of.

        Take care.

  3. know (v)–1. To perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty. 2. To be cognizant or aware of.

    Can understanding be faulty?

    • Well, tell me one thing that you know absent certainty?

      • You didn’t answer my question, Dan. Can understanding (ie. the source of knowledge, according to the definition you gave) be faulty?

      • Here’s a mind-bender for you, Debunking:

        If I acknowledge that I don’t know anything (not even one thing) absent certainty, wouldn’t I know with certainty that I don’t know anything absent certainty?

        I believe they call that infinite regression, but I’m not certain ; )

        Now back to your regularly scheduled real world programming…

  4. An understanding of the distinction between truth propositions that are justified and truth propositions that correspond to reality neatly defuses the false dilemma that Van Til would have us buy into. Or to put it bluntly absolutely certainty beyond the perceptual level is not even an epistemological standard. All inductive conclusions are by their very nature tentative. Further as was pointed out by whateverman the presuppers act the same way as everyone else with regard to knowledge and how they make decisions based on it. In short Van Til is full of shit.

  5. nope, the conclusion that induction is tentative is a deductive conclusion. It logically follows that if your premises are not certain your conclusion can not be.

  6. Dan, I’ve directly answered your ‘what if everything you know is wrong?’ question – is there a reason that you haven’t told me what the next step on your script is? It is because you don’t HAVE a next step?

  7. Dan, can understanding (ie. the source of knowledge, according to the definition you gave) ever be faulty? Yes or no, and an explanation please…

  8. Dan doesn’t understand even the basic tenets of presuppositionalism. He simply asks ‘how do you know for certain’ questions all day long.

    Evidence that Dan has no clue what he’s talking about include when he was caught out arguing that, by certainty, he means proof beyond a reasonable doubt (the very opposite of what the presuppositionalist playbook says):

    When I speak of proof I want to say proof without reasonable doubt. That is a reasonable approach to situations. Agree?

    proof without reasonable doubt = certainty.

    Clearly not a presuppositionalist scholar yet, eh? I had fun with him that time!

    BTW, he gets mad whenever I bring that up and usually calls me a jerk.

  9. I notice Dan never did tell me what the next step would be…

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