an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

An Open Challenge

Old Circular Sye, Bullshitter in Chief at the risible Sinner Ministries, and owner of the comically inaccurately named proofthatgodexists.org, is trying to goad me into a FOURTH debate with him. Obviously not satisfied with the increasingly firm drubbings he received in the first three encounters, he wants to come back for another pasting, thinking that a live debate with a moderator will give him more of a chance at not leaving looking like a fool.

I’ve told him I will happily debate him live, with one proviso – he brings an argument other than the done-to-death TAG. You can witness his response in the comments here, as you can see he’s rather unhappy about the possibility of having to debate something other than his prelearned script.

The funniest thing is that he’s claiming that what I’m demanding is akin to only agreeing to an arm wrestle if my opponent has both arms tied behind his back. He doesn’t realise that I’m actually offering the EXACT opposite, I’m giving him a chance to bring something other than his failed circular crap. I could easily go into a live debate and deal with Sye, as it would be no different to the third conversation we had, but I’m trying to get him to try and think outside of his heavily rehearsed box.

So far his reactions indicate that he can’t do so….which I take as a tacit admission that I’ve defeated him, and graciously accept victory in the debate.

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38 thoughts on “An Open Challenge

  1. Does anyone need any more evidence that this method is the proper way to debate professed atheists? Alex is so afraid of this argument, that he refuses to debate someone using it. You'd think if it was such a lame argument, he'd be happy to expose it as such.To be honest, I have no interest in drubbing you again with the argument Alex, I merely challenged you to the debate to expose the fact that you do in fact "shy away from challenges," contrary to the claim that you posted (and I thankfully screen captured before you deleted). :-DP.S. I have been screen-capturing all of these deleted posts, and plan on combining them into a lovely exposé.

  2. P.S. Folks, this is Alex: "not acknowleding me anywhere." 😀

  3. how can you say that someone who has given 6hrs+ of debate is a refusal to debate?

  4. Sye:     You are not debating when you stick your fingers in your ears and just keep repeating your rehearsed script. Alex has said he is willing to debate you if you will be honest. But your script is not honest.

  5. Alex has said he is willing to debate you if you will be honest"Um no, he said that he is willing to debate me if I do not use a particular argument that has been destroying his position.But your script is not honest.Prove this please.

  6. Sye:     It's amazing how you keep saying "prove this" when I tell you something you already know.

  7. "It's amazing how you keep saying "prove this" when I tell you something you already know."It's amazing how many times I say "prove this," and you don't.

  8. Sye, since you have already "destroyed" Alex's position with your "how do you know" argument, what would be the purpose of continuing? Why does there need to be a bloody stain where once was a dead horse?If you are so confident that you are superior to him, then accept his caveat and prove correct that you can destroy him in any subject!And just out of curiosity, how would it be decided who would Moderate? I mean would there be simply 1 that you would both agree on (doubtful as that seems that you could both agree on something), or 2 Mods, 1 for each of you, who would then crosscheck each other?Anyway, awaiting with great anticipation!JoE

  9. Sye, since you have already "destroyed" Alex's position with your "how do you know" argument, what would be the purpose of continuing?Read the the first comment in this thread (before Alex deletes it).

  10. "Alex is so afraid of this argument, that he refuses to debate someone using it."That would only be true if you ignore the three debates we've already had, the debate with Alan, the second discussion with Eric and Dustin, touching upon it with David Smart, and the countless online encounters. Yeah, Sye, *I'm* 'afraid' of debating you, keep telling yourself that!

  11. "That would only be true if you ignore the three debates we've already had, the debate with Alan, the second discussion with Eric and Dustin, touching upon it with David Smart, and the countless online encounters."Are you going to similarly add up the time you've spent debating evolution? Didn't think so."Yeah, Sye, *I'm* 'afraid' of debating you, keep telling yourself that!"I don't need to. Your actions speak for themselves.(Oops, looks like I just qualified this comment for deletion 🙂 – Screenshot 🙂

  12. "Are you going to similarly add up the time you've spent debating evolution? Didn't think so."What?? Literally, what?? What are you trying to say here?"I don't need to. Your actions speak for themselves."Yes they do, and they show to anyone reading that I've already debated you multiple times, and am more than willing to do so again IF you can come up with a new argument. Sye, I'm lost as to how you can spin this as something to feel smug about – you're flailing here, and can't see just how ridiculous you're looking.

  13. "What are you trying to say here?"Um, that you have a bias towards the argument which destroys your position."Sye, I'm lost as to how you can spin this as something to feel smug about – you're flailing here, and can't see just how ridiculous you're looking."From the guy who said that he: "NEVER shies away from ANY challenge," and "will not be acknowledging me anywhere!" Brilliant!

  14. "Um, that you have a bias towards the argument which destroys your position."And that is meant to show that I HAVEN'T debated it?? Really, you need to think these things through!"From the guy who said that he: "NEVER shies away from ANY challenge," and "will not be acknowledging me anywhere!" Brilliant! "So, I changed my mind about interacting with you, and I've ACCEPTED your challenge, with a slight caveat of my own. Again, you're not doing yourself any favours here. I'm starting to wonder how long it'll be until other Christians start to distance themselves from you, the Mr Bean of Apologists.

  15. "And that is meant to show that I HAVEN'T debated it?"Um no. ??? Merely that you have a bias (as I said)."I've ACCEPTED your challenge, with a slight caveat of my own."No, you said that you "NEVER shy away from a challenge," and clearly you are shying away from a formal debate with no limitations as to the type of argument to be employed (for obvious reasons)."Again, you're not doing yourself any favours here. I'm starting to wonder how long it'll be until other Christians start to distance themselves from you, the Mr Bean of Apologists."Well, sadly, there are many that find our exchanges amusing, but you won't like the reason why 🙂

  16. Sye, you really are a desperate little man aren't you?I've talked to you about the TAG for FUCKING HOURS, and have nothing more to say about it to you! Can't you understand that? I'm not 'frightened', I'm not considering your argument to be so powerful that I can't answer it, I just can't be fucking bothered to listen to you as 'how do you know that?' over and over for EVER.You may as well give up, I have no intention of discussing the TAG again – it's a dead dog, boring to EVERYONE but you and your small circle of apologists, and fucking podcast poison (like you).Come up with a new argument, and I'll take you on….stick with the TAG and I have nothing to say.You've only got ONE argument, haven't you? Just admit it.

  17. "Well, sadly, there are many that find our exchanges amusing, but you won't like the reason why :-)"Honestly, why would the opinion of a group of people who believe a talking snake told a woman made from her husband's rib to eat a magic fruit matter to me? Seriously, I'd love to know.

  18. "Seriously, I'd love to know"Alright. Because you made a complete fool of yourself.

  19. "Alright. Because you made a complete fool of yourself."AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! FUCKING HELL SYE! YOU TOTAL PRICK!! You didn't read what I said AT ALL did you???FUCKSAKE!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, What a hapless cunt you are! Joe Cienkowski in a Suit indeed! I nailed that one! You've virtually ZERO cognitive ability!Understand I'm being insulting and offensive because I intend to offend and insult.

  20. "You didn't read what I said AT ALL did you???"In fact I did. I disagreed with your biased assessment of those who thought your "argument" was nonsensical to nonexistent, but I provided you with an answer nonetheless. You appear to be losing control Alex, even worse than the coronary you appeared to be having in the podcasts.

  21. "but I provided you with an answer nonetheless."But not to the question asked – which was (I paraphrase) 'why would I respect the opinion of idiots?'I'm very much in control btw, and having a proper good laugh at your stupidity and relentless haplessness! Seriously Sye, you're comedy GOLD!

  22. Sye, your reply to me was not an answer to my question.If you have already "proven" your point, what is the purpose of further beating it to death? Vengeance? Not very Christian, that.Pulverize him with something else! Or is it as the baby-eater says: you can't?JoE

  23. "If you have already "proven" your point, what is the purpose of further beating it to death? Vengeance? Not very Christian, that."I have no intention of further beating it to death. As I said, read my first comment. I am merely exposing that Alex does in fact shy away from challenges contrary to his claim that he NEVER does."Pulverize him with something else!"How is that Christian? 🙂"Or is it as the baby-eater says: you can't?"It is not that the presuppositionalist cannot "pulverize" the professed atheists on other topics, but I would argue that it would be unwise, and even sinful to do so. You see, when you argue a point with a person who cannot justify argumentation, then you are basically telling them that God is not necessary for their very ability to argue, and you cease proclaiming the God of Scripture.You see, even if you win THAT argument, the atheist can say: "Okay, you won that argument, but guess what, I didn't need your God to argue the point." It is our duty to cast down vain reasoning (2 Cor 10:5), not to entertain it.

  24. "but I would argue that it would be unwise, and even sinful to do so"OMFG, you're MENTAL!! As for your other point, I've explained that I DON'T need your god to argue, and I've supplied evidence to back this up (as have many others). Sye, you're a stupid prick, there's no mistaking it.

  25. "I've explained that I DON'T need your god to argue, and I've supplied evidence to back this up"Right. Existence exists, therefore Alex Botten knows "X" (with some circular nonsense in between). Ya, I've heard that. Repeating it does not make it make sense Alex.

  26. Sye, you're a Christian Mr Bean.

  27. Anyway, am I to take it then that you will not be meeting my challenge?

  28. "Anyway, am I to take it then that you will not be meeting my challenge?"I do not debate with people who seek to constrain my methodology. You are free to interpret that as "not meeting your challenge" but I think it is clear what is really going on here. You are basically saying: "I challenge you to a debate, but you can't use this argument." If you think that makes sense, have at it. Do keep in mind though, that I am not the person who said: "I NEVER shy away from any challenge." That was you, and you are clearly shying away from my challenge to debate you formally WITHOUT restrictions on argumentation.

  29. I offered to debate you, and met your challenge – you at no point said I couldn't add a caveat.Thanks for playing Sye, don't let the door whack you on the arse as you leave.

  30. "I offered to debate you, and met your challenge – you at no point said I couldn't add a caveat."You are joking right? So when you said: "I NEVER shy away from any challenge." What you meant to say was: "I NEVER shy away from any challenge where I am allowed to impose whatever conditions I want." What a bold claim! Makes perfect sense to me there Alex.

  31. I'm not sure why you're still posting, considering you've tacitly admitted that you don't have any other argument besides the TAG, and that you've lost the debate by defaulting.

  32. "I'm not sure why you're still posting, considering you've tacitly admitted that you don't have any other argument besides the TAG, and that you've lost the debate by defaulting."Just because I choose to use a backhoe to dig your metaphorical grave, it does not follow that I do not have a shovel.

  33. Sye, I gather he has stated that your circular TAG argument is not really a "challenge", so how is he backing down from a challenge when your argument isn't?JoE

  34. "Just because I choose to use a backhoe to dig your metaphorical grave, it does not follow that I do not have a shovel. "Obviously not, that would be a fallacy. However, as you only have the hoe, it is fair to say that you DON'T have a shovel. Which is a pity, you could have used it to dig yourself out of this rather ugly hole.

  35. "Obviously not, that would be a fallacy."According to what absolute standard of logic, and how do you account for that standard? (Lemme guess – Primacy of Existence right? 🙂 Surely it is no coincidence that the initials for said argument is "POE" 🙂 "However, as you only have the hoe, it is fair to say that you DON'T have a shovel."How do you know that I only have the backhoe? (with which I will gladly, once again, dig your metaphorical grave 🙂

  36. The way you keep going, even when everyone can see you've lost horribly, is most amusing. Keep it up.

  37. Sye seems to think that if he refuses to answer or acknowledge your counterarguments, he wins. But he commits a worse sin than that, for a podcast: he’s boring.Sooner have David back to beat a dead argument than Sye. David at least conversed with you like a human being, while Sye recited to you like a telemarketer.

  38. Agreed. David may believe some bizarre woo, and his only persona may be (imo) overly patronising, but in person he's far more pleasant to speak to.

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