an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

A Repeated Phrase I’m Getting Sick of Reading

“you know God exists [and] are looking for reasons to ditch Him because you have a moral objection to Him and thus, you suppress the truth in unrighteousness.”
from Grace in the Triad blog

That phrase, or variants of it, has been flung at me several times by faith heads over the last few days, in reaction to Jim and I taking part in a discussion with Sye Ten Bruggencate and Eric Hovind, and I’m starting to get rather sick of it.

It is insulting in the extreme to have someone else claim to know what you think, and to do it with such arrogant certainty about views that are clearly the opposite of your own is obscene. For these hollow, lying, charlatans it’s not enough to say ‘I respect your right to hold a different opinion’, oh no, they have to force their belief on the non-believer, following up by giving a completely fallacious ‘reason’ for that belief!

Listen up, Sye’s fanclub, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY GODS. Is that clear enough for you? I do not believe in YHWH, I do not believe in Allah, I do not believe in Vishnu, I do not believe in Thor, I do not believe in ANY of the 4000+ gods mankind has invented during his time. I am NOT ‘suppressing’ any truths, and to claim otherwise is a barefaced lie. In fact, the ONLY way you could possible know what I’m thinking and what I do and do not believe would be if you were omniscient.

Are you? Are you omniscient? Come on, TAG lover! Answer the question  – ARE YOU OMNISCIENT? No? Oh, well it seems that you DON’T know what I think or believe after all!

At this point one of them usually says ‘Oh but the Bible tells me you do!’, yeah, but the Bible also claims insects have 4 legs, bats are birds, rabbits ‘chew the cud’, that there was a global flood 4000 years ago, and that some of Jesus’ followers would not have died by the time he returned – in short the Bible is regularly, and hilariously, WRONG. Really, since when did quoting verses out of a book that I don’t hold in any authority win an argument? Never, that’s fucking when.

Certain fundies are bad enough when they’re just keeping their thoughts to themselves, but when they start to tell other people what they think, there I must draw the line.

Single Post Navigation

10 thoughts on “A Repeated Phrase I’m Getting Sick of Reading

  1. Since you had the courtesy to visit my blog and then fling a cheap insult my way, I thought I'd go ahead and return the former favor (but forego the latter).I'd like to ask you about this statement, which you repeated quite a bit when you were on with SyeTenB and @erichovind; that is, you expressed moral outrage several times.It is insulting in the extreme to have someone else claim to know what you thinkSo what? Is it a morally bad thing to insult someone? I'd like to know how you know that.Also, you said something that's unintentionally funny: In fact, the ONLY way you could possible know what I'm thinking and what I do and do not believe would be if you were omniscient.Pair that up with:I do not believe in ANY of the 4000+ gods mankind has invented during his time…and we have the makings of a serious irony vortex.For one thing, it is unbelievably bizarre to me how Sye could tell you at least twice on the show that we're not claiming all knowledge but rather to know someone who does have all knowledge, and you still don't want to take that into account. That says something about your willingness to be honest. Hmmm, what do we call someone who's not honest? Oh yes, you helpfully provided some colorful verbiage: hollow, lying, charlatan.Also, you claim to know that mankind invented these gods. To repeat (again) what Eric said to you, how do you know mankind invented them? Wouldn't that require omniscience on your part? And don't retreat, I beg you, to the tired move-the-goalposts-quick canard of "what I mean is I haven't seen any evidence of any of those gods". That also requires omniscience, for there are many things that evidence things you (and the rest of mankind) don't yet understand. To claim knowledge that none of those things are evidence for a god (since that would mean you'd know all the things for which the things you observe are evidence) would thus require omniscience.You also haven't seen any evidence that evidence is a good way to discover truth (EGW). So, since you believe EGW without evidence for that assertion, isn't that blind faith? And if you believe in EGW and think you know it to be true, why do you violate EGW in that most fundamentally important of cases?So, you'll have to come up with something else. I'd very much like to see you back up your harsh polemic with something other than mocking laughter. You sounded like a fool on the radio. Perhaps you're better in writing.Peace,Rhology

  2. So, are you claiming these 4000+ gods are not man made, and they all created the world?

  3. Mex,Get back to me when you show some evidence of having read through my answer.

  4. Rhology:     Unless you yourself are omniscient, you have no way of knowing whether that being you believe to be omniscient is lying to you about the beliefs of outsiders.

  5. Pvblivs,I presuppose the God of the Bible, and He is not like that.Now, your turn – how do YOU know that there isn't a god who spends all his time making you think he's not there?Be specific, and be different from Alex B, please: Actually answer the question I'm asking.

  6. "Now, your turn – how do YOU know that there isn't a god who spends all his time making you think he's not there?"How do YOU know that same god isn't fooling you? If your god is spending all his time making me think he's not there, then he's utterly shit at this 'revealing' malarkey, and I'm utterly blameless for not believing in him! Anyway, no such being exists, as no gods exist…at all.

  7. Told you already.And I told you this too – your turn to answer some of my questions.Anyway, no such being exists, as no gods exist…at all.Unless a god exists who's fooling you into thinking he doesn't exist.How would you know?

  8. Rhology, Interesting to not how you are demanding your questions are answered while totally ignoring all those asked of you LOL

  9. Mex,Just as I suspected, you don't seem to have read my post.

  10. Rhology:     I don't know that there isn't a god who deliberately hides. However, the description of the biblical god is not one of concealing his presence.     You presuppose the biblical god and you presuppose that he is honest. But this looks, to me, like you are presupposing that "Honest John" the used-car salesman is telling you the truth. Unless you are omniscient yourself, you cannot distinguish between the condition you believe and that of a trickster god.

Write what you like, but don't cry if you act like a dick and get banned for it

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: