an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

The Irony is Delicious, Part 2

From the mind of Bob Sorensen comes this gem –

Atheist Rule Book Page 14: We do not need to follow the rules of logic. NEVER forsake the Straw Man, and mix it with ad hominem whenever possible. 

Hmmm, let’s look at this shall we? Well, firstly, there is no such thing as the ‘Atheist Rule Book’, so that’s a strawman right there. Secondly Bob believes an eternally existing magical being brought the Universe into existence in a week, 6000 years ago, despite there being no evidence to support this, and the existence of such a being being is completely illogical. Thirdly Bob is a bit of a hypocrite attacking others for using ad hominems when he’s never yet met one he didn’t like, as this tweet from earlier today attests –

 ‘Obummer’ – clever, I see what you’ve done there
His repeated committing of the fallacies he endlessly, wrongly, accuses other of perpetrating would be funny, if Robert wasn’t such a complete wank.
Also today, he’s been getting into a bit of a lather about what ‘atheist’ actually means, insisting over and over again that atheism is a religion.
Here’s the thing, Bob, I don’t believe in any gods, or anything supernatural for that matter – now, that makes me ‘an atheist’ but only insomuch as there isn’t a better, even clearer description. It DOES NOT make me a ‘believer in atheism’, or a member of any religion – just as not being in Bon Jovi doesn’t mean I’m actually IN Bon Jovi. Got that? Your constant complaints that atheists are defining a word in a way that YOU don’t like because it completely undermines your strawman argument come across as the whinings of a pathetic little boy who doesn’t like the game he’s losing at because he doesn’t understand the rules.
Perhaps Bob will come along to the Creationist Discussion Group on Facebook and answer his critics on a forum where he can’t block those who disagree with him….sadly, I doubt he has the stones.

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11 thoughts on “The Irony is Delicious, Part 2

  1.      I like to be fair — even to Norman. Atheism has but one belief, that there are no gods. You hold that belief. Therefore, you believe in atheism. To use your analogy, it is as though you keep protesting that you are not in Bon Jovi, but he keeps insisting that you are a member of some other group.

  2. Atheists do *NOT* believe in no gods, we have no belief in any gods. This is a subtle but very important difference, that most theists miss (either deliberately or not).And Lex congratulations on your new non-job with Bon Jovi.

  3. I agree with Mex – not believing in something ISN'T a different type of believing.

  4.      You don't believe in gods in the same way that I don't believe in the Loch Ness monster. I believe that the monster is not there; and you believe that gods are not there. If you didn't hold some relevant belief, you wouldn't bother with Norman's posts. My relevant beliefs in regards to his posts are that his particular god is fictional and that, were it to exist, it would be evil. I mean, really, why do you even want to include people under the umbrella of "atheism" that just don't belong? You are not undecided on the matter of whether gods exist. You have concluded that they don't. No sensible person will lose respect for you over that. But agreeing with one another that you will play word games and say you just "lack belief" will cause a loss of respect. It will also make it look like Norman has a point. Alex, you pointed out on another thread that your child saw right away that Sye was just playing word games. I expect that he also sees that you are.     Acknowledge what atheism is, the belief that there are no gods. Stop saying "oh, there's no word for that concept; it really means 'lacking belief' so we can include babies, dogs, cats, plants, and rocks." There is nothing to be ashamed of about your belief. There is no reason (that I can see) to pretend that you don't have one. And you aren't convincing anyone that you don't have a belief. At most, you are convincing some people who share your belief that no gods exist to play along.

  5. Hmmm, the accusation of 'word games' could be equally flung in the opposite direction. Let me state, clearly, MY feelings on the matter of gods – I have NO BELIEF in them. Having no belief in something is NOT THE SAME as having a different kind of belief in it….just as suffocating is not a different type of breathing. There are no gods, I no more 'believe' this than I believe in gravity or the sky, I don't need to, I KNOW that there are no gods. I hope that clears things up.

  6. "Theist" means having a theistic belief in a god or gods."Atheist" means "not theist" (since "A" means "no" or "not"). Therefore, "atheist" means not having a theistic belief in a god or gods. It's really just that simple.Atheist does not mean having a theistic belief in no gods, atheist means not having a theistic belief in gods at all.I don't understand the confusion. Not having a belief is not the same as having a belief, no matter how much the believer wants atheists to have beliefs.

  7. Alex B     Knowledge implies belief. For example: I know that 2 + 2 = 4. I also believe it. For you to believe something only means that your mind holds it as true. Your mind holds as true the proposition that there are no gods.Corky     The "a" attatches strongly to "theos," creating a new atomic concept of "no god." An atheist believes that there is no god. I am in no position to establish whether he is right or wrong on the point. Now, it is true that you do not have a theistic belief that there are no gods, as the proposition is not a theistic belief. You have an atheistic belief that there are no gods.

  8. @Pvblivs "Acknowledge what atheism is, the belief that there are no gods." That is *NOT* what it means (regardless of how much christians would love it to), as I said and Corky pointed out "Therefore, "atheist" means not having a theistic belief in a god or gods. It's really just that simple."You claim to be "a skeptic", but I'm not so sure, you seem to be using all the /classic/ theist arguments, perhaps you are only sceptical of Atheist thought.

  9. Mex:     I don't see where it helps christians for you to admit that atheism is the belief that there are no gods. Of course, I do see that it helps them when some insist on a dishonest definition that would include babies, plants, and rocks. That allows them to portray atheism itself as dishonest — which it isn't. But, for some reason I cannot fathom, some atheists want to inflate their numbers. It is sometimes useful to talk about the people who believe there are no gods as a group. For that purpose, the term "atheist" is used. It is not useful to inject babies, plants, and rocks into the mix — except for those who want to derail such discussion.     "You claim to be 'a skeptic'"     That is because I am.     "but I'm not so sure, you seem to be using all the /classic/ theist arguments"     The classic theistic arguments all attempt to arrive at the conclusion that the theist's particular god(s) are real. I challenge you to find a single example of me doing that. (Note: Failing to rule out a god does not count. You need to find an example of my ruling one in.)     I am neither a theist nor an atheist. I am part of that "excluded middle." And I despise attempts to reclassify me as either theist or atheist. So, I do have a dog in this fight, just not the one you want to attribute to me.

  10. Pvblivs, you've previously said you don't accept evolution, could you explain what you think happens instead?

  11. Alex:     I have previously stated that evolution is a plausible hypothesis which, however, has not been put through the "trial by fire" that most scientific theories are. You might argue that I don't specificly regard evolution as true; but I don't specificly regard it as false, either. Oh, and I believe you mean "happened" as for that we were talking about evolution as the cause for the diversity of life.

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