an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

Archive for the month “August, 2011”

Fundamentally Flawed, Episode 8, Available Now

Have a listen to the latest episode here

Bob ‘Stormbringer’ Sorensen, Still Lacking ‘A Clue’

“That old “babies are born atheists” is just another assertion trick they use. It’s ridiculous because it’s opinion, not provable.”

Yup, Sorensen is back to making his frankly insane argument for children being born with a belief in gods. He made an arse of himself earlier in the year with this, but he’s back saying it’s not ‘provable’….well, how about this – what god do Hindu babies believe in Bob? What about Muslim children, which god do they believe in? How about the offspring of Buddhists? Or Catholics? Or even atheists?

You see, Sorensen’s ‘argument’ is so pathetic that even thinking about it for a few seconds can fully undermine it.

Here’s a clear statement for you, Bob, babies are born without any knowledge of the human construct of gods, just like every other living thing. To claim otherwise shows you to be a faithhead of such insane proportions that you no doubt think that inanimate objects also worship your god.

Joe Cienkowski, Incapable of Learning

If I had a pound coin for every time Joe has had the origins of the BC/AD dating method explained to him I would have literally hundreds of pounds…I’d be able to buy myself something really nice. Joe has had this explained to him over and over and over and over again, yet he never ever seems to learn.

The man is a moron.

The Sorensen Cycle

Over the last 6 or 7 months I’ve watched Bob Sorensen interact with dozens of non-believers on blogs and Twitter, and every time he follows the exact same pattern. I’m calling it ‘The Sorensen Cycle’, and it goes a little like this –

  1. Make an ill-informed, sweeping, statement about atheists or evolution (eg. ‘Atheism causes brain damage’, make sure to use the #atheist tag)
  2. When atheists start to ask you what evidence you have for this, direct them to some Creationist website
  3. When this is pointed out to be no evidence at all accuse the atheists of being ‘trolls’, and insist that they are guilty of ‘logical fallacies’
  4. When asked to supply an example of a ‘logical fallacy’ tell the atheist that you’ve already done so, and ‘spanked’ them good.
  5. Continue to claim to have done something you haven’t, become more aggressive towards the atheists
  6. Block
  7. Claim victory to other Jesustweeters
  8. Repeat

He’s used this technique so many times I’ve lost count.

Hey, Is Chris Taylor of Conroe, Texas, Still Talking Nonsense?

Let’s see!

It would appear so. But what of his BZ1461 account?

…more of the same it would seem.

Chris Taylor, of Conroe, Texas, you are a prize fuckwit.

Posted Without Comment

A Shockingly Bad Atheist Article

2. There is no Resurrection of Jesus in the Bible.

That’s right. There is absolutely no resurrection narrative found anywhere in the four canonical gospels. Jesus’ body is placed in the tomb, and three days later the rock has been rolled back and the tomb is simply empty. Nowhere in the New Testament is there a description of Jesus coming back to life. Sorry to disappoint you, but all of the “He is Risen” stickers are just wrong. “He has Disappeared” would be more accurate.
Now the non-canonical Gospel of Peter (this gospel was at one time part of the Christian Bible), recovered in Egypt by the French archaeologist Urbain Bouriant in 1886, does describe the resurrection of Jesus. In this account, Jesus is crucified by Herod Antipas rather than Pontius Pilate, and when Jesus does come back to life, he is a massive giant who is accompanied by a walking-talking cross. Yes, that’s right. The cross Jesus was crucified on walks out of the tomb and can talk. Could you imagine all the little kids playing with little talking cross-dolls if the Gospel of Peter had been left in the Bible?

That crock of easily debunked shit is from Atheist Connect dot Org, and is part of a risible article claiming to expose the top ten things that Christians don’t know about the Bible. It’s bad enough that faithheads regularly make ludicrously dickish blog posts about just how little they understand about evolution, we don’t need atheists doing the same.

Bad show, Atheist Connect, very bad show.

Bob Sorensen: Hypocrite

Feeling the need to empty his bowels, Bob ‘Stormbringer’ Sorensen has again shat out a hilariously hypocritical spray of effluent across the web. 
I initially intended to go through his latest line by line, but I frankly can’t be arsed, so instead I’m just going to illustrate Bob’s points with some of his own tweets and interactions with others….(bullet points are from Sorensen’s blog, responses follow)

  • Mistakes. Maybe it was simple carelessness, maybe it was irresponsibly repeating erroneous information. But mistakes happen. I’ve made them, and admitted it both times. By the way, it bothers me when I’m talking to someone who makes a statement and then corrects it with the comment, “Oh, I lied. I said 1939 and I meant 1945”. No, Snookums, you did not lie, it was a simple mistake, capice?

 It was a ‘mistake’ when Stormy howled with rage and claimed he’d never mentioned ‘logical fallacies’ (his favourite subject) on here….

Yes, I was, apparently, ‘demon spawn’, and Sorensen insisted this was the case until I showed him the following – 
Oh dear.
So, how did Sorensen admit his mistake? Like this (after I’d asked about his sudden silence) – 
That’s how you admit a mistake…..apparently.

  • Disagreements. Just because you disagree with something the other person says does not mean that he or she is lying. 

 Compare that to Sorensen’s description of Twitter user Arturusze….

  • Disbelief. Guess what, Gertrude? Just because you do not believe what the other person is saying does not automatically make it a lie.

 I present the following posts from Sorensen in response to that point….

(the second one is especially apt, considering I’ve repeatedly told him I’ve looked at the contrary ‘evidence’)

  • Ignorance. This is close to the above concern: Just because you do not know about something the other person is presenting does not automatically make it a lie.


  • Antipathy. Would you believe that I learned that word from a song by Blue Oyster Cult? “…pure nectar of antipathy…” Anyway, just because you don’t like it doesn’t make something untrue.

  • Source. Another one that is close to the previous concern: Just because you hate the person or what he or she stands for does not make what they say untrue.


  • Humor. Yes, humor can be used very effectively to convey truth as well as falsehood. But making a joke in and of itself is generally not a lie. Exaggeration, sarcasm, hyperbole and the like also qualify as not being lies themselves per se.

I wasn’t able to find any evidence of Sorensen using humour.

What a hypocrite. 

Why Won’t Some Atheists Leave Christians Alone?

…that’s a question I’m regularly asked, and today is no different –

MzMillerizMGgal, as well as having an almost Cthulhu-esque Twitter name, pretty much sums up the problem – Right Wing Christians don’t want non-believers (or followers of other religions) to have any voice at all (as evidenced by the rest of MzMillerizMGgal’s time line) whilst relentlessly pushing their religiously informed agenda on the public at large.

These people seek the criminalisation of abortion and homosexual marriage, and would rejoice if their country became a Christian Theocracy. They want anyone who doesn’t agree with them to simply shut up and go away, and they have no interest whatsoever in engaging in discussing the real issues (see the way Bob Sorensen refused to discuss evolution with my Fundamentally Flawed co-host Jim Gardner over at, despite Jim’s calm and polite offer of a civil discussion, for evidence)

This is why a number of us push back, this is why there are pro-atheism signs going on buses around the world, this is why non-believers are finally standing up and saying ‘enough’.

So what can the Christians (and other religious believers – don’t forget, they’re all as wrong as each other!) do to stop us ‘attacking’ them? Simple – stop preaching, and stop trying to force your beliefs into law. Do that and you’ll find that atheists leave you alone.

REPOST: The Many Inaccuracies of Joe Cienkowski

(first published on Tuesday, 18 January 2011, republished in light of Joe’s continuing BS about the BC/AD dating system)

Joe Cienkowski, Young Earth Creationist, and serial fact denier, has a small number of regular points that he repeats over and over and over on his Twitter feed. Time and time again people with a far better understanding of geology, theology, biology, astronomy, chemistry, and any other -ry you can name, point out that he’s wrong, that he’s singularly failed to understand a basic point about, say, population growth, or evolution, or history.

Does Joe ever learn from this? Does he absorb a single word of knowledge, and adjust his world view accordingly? Does he fuck. Joe is blinded by his monomaniacal ‘faith’ that he’s the ‘most christian’ believer on Earth, the religion’s ‘chief apologist’, and is unwilling to admit that, in most areas, he hasn’t got a clue.

Let’s look, in no particular order, at Joe’s commonly trotted out pearls of wisdom….

  • BC/AD dating proves the existence of Jesus – Joe seems unaware that Dennis the Short picked a fairly arbitrary date for the birth of Jesus, based on a guess. To Joe this is nothing short of history being slashed in two by the Son of God. To the rest of us it’s nothing of the sort. 
  • The Torah is the Oldest Book in the World – this is another regular statement from Joe, one he repeats ad-nauseum  despite having been shown, repeatedly, that there are far far older texts. Weirdly, the existence of older books is something Joe will acknowledge, before going back to insisting the Bible to be the oldest the following day
  • You only ever see human babies born to humans in hospitals, and this disproves evolution – Joe seems to be under the impression that a chimp had to give birth to a human child at some point for evolution to be a fact.
  • There are no transitional fossils – as we’ve seen before on this blog, that’s just bollocks.
  • Human Population has decreased by 96% if you go back in time to the Flood – this is a favourite of Joe’s, and is the subject of his shit pamphlet book ‘The Grand Reality’. Over 19 pages, he explains how a drawing he’s copied from Kent Hovind proves that mankind can not have possibly existed for more than 6000 years. When I told my 14 year old son about this, he looked confused for a moment then asked ‘doesn’t he understand how population growth works?’. The answer is no, Joe hasn’t a clue how populations grow.
  • The Bible is 100% inerrant and completely harmonious – even when Joe is shown contradictions he either dismisses them as ‘copyist errors’ (and how is that different from a mistake, exactly) or says they aren’t there at all.
  • Atheism is a religion – no it isn’t Joe. Atheism is no more a religion than not playing Dungeons and Dragons is a hobby. 
  • To accept evolution you have to accept everything came from nothing, not scientific! – Joe seems to be unable to understand that the Big Bang and/or abiogenesis have nothing to do with Evolution. And don’t bother trying to explain that we’re gaining knowledge of how life might have started, Joe doesn’t want to hear it.
  • History is wrong, if it contradicts the Bible – there may be 30 independent, non-contradictory external sources that all claim an event happened, but if the Bible is contradicted it’s HISTORY that’s wrong, not the Bible….yeah, right Joe.
  • There’s loads of archaeological evidence for the Bible – no there isn’t
  • Dinosaurs were just big lizards that lived for hundreds of years – usually he goes on to claim that Chinese dragons, cave paintings, figureheads on ships, and bizarrely, Beowulf (yes, the work of fiction) are evidence of this.
  • I love science! – Joe says this regularly, despite the overwhelming evidence that he doesn’t understand science…at all
  • Only a fool wouldn’t believe Jesus existed! – Joe claims that there is so much evidence for the existence of a real Jesus that you’d have to be an idiot not to believe in him (he often cites the fact that we have Christmas as evidence). He refuses to acknowledge that, the more you look for Jesus in history, the more he disappears.
  • No real Christian could ever become an Atheist – despite the evidence that plenty of Christians become Atheists (I’m one, Michael Shermer is another, Les Ogilvie of The 21st Floor blog another), Joe claims that it’s not the case. Hilariously he makes a classic ‘No True Scotsman’ case, saying that these former Christian Atheists were never Christians at all.
  • Hitler was an atheist – really Joe? Have you got THAT desperate?
  • Darwin made up the theory of evolution with no evidence – again, even when presented with the evidence Joe refuses to stop repeating this lie.
  • Carbon dating is so inaccurate it can’t be trusted – when his critics explain to him that the problems with carbon dating are known, and that’s why we now have far more accurate other forms of radiometric dating, Joe just repeats his initial claim and pretends nothing that contradicts him has been said
  • Rocks are dated by the fossils in them, which are in turn dated by the rocks they’re in – Joe claims that the ages of rocks and fossils were worked out via circular reasoning. Again, he ignores any attempts to correct this nonsense.
  • The existence of Israel is proof that Jesus existed – no, Joe, it’s proof that self fulfilling prophecies happen.
  • Jesus was resurrected, so the Bible is true! – obviously Mr C fails to understand that his using of the Bible as the evidence for this is entirely circular – ‘I believe the Bible is true because the Bible says it’s true’. He trots this one out regularly when being cornered about history containing almost nothing of the events outlined in both the Old and New Testaments. 
  • Abiogenesis is just Spontaneous Generation renamed – another massive lie that has been corrected many times, yet Joe keeps spewing it out. 
  • Coelacanth was thought to be extinct but lives! – yes, it does Joe, but it’s changed quite significantly. Also, since when has a creature living in a stable, unchanging environment not changing beyond recognition proof that Creationism is true?

I’ve probably forgotten a few, but by now you’ll be feeling your brain clogging up with the sheer stupidity of the man.

I think people get so frustrated with Joe Cienkowski because he’s so wilfully ignorant, and refuses to learn from those who know better….it doesn’t help that he’s so massively arrogant and quick to scoff at those he disagrees with.

If I’ve missed anything out, feel free to add it in the comments

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