an atheist viewpoint

thoughts from a non-theist

Don’t Try to Play Me

Yesterday evening I noticed an increase in traffic to this blog from the website of a chap called David Brown. David popped up in the comments here back in April, joining the Jon Burke aka Fortigurn/Len/Ken Gilmour circle of weirdo fundies who claim the Bible to be literally true whilst simultaneously saying it….isnt (the cognitive dissonance must be driving them insane). 
So why was I suddenly getting visitors via his website? It seems that there’s a bit of a dispute brewing in the church David attends (a church I won’t name, as I feel it is utterly irrelevant), and David, in some kind of desperate attempt to draw some of the heat away from himself had cited my blog in his response to accusations levelled against him. 
To put it mildly, I was not impressed. Here’s the email I sent to him last night –
I notice you link to my blog from your latest posting. Please remove immediately any links to my website, I do not wish to be cited in your petty argument over who believes the ‘right’ delusion. I am nothing to do with your argument with [redacted] and do not wish to be linked to it in any way shape or form. As a christian I believe you are compelled to honour my request right away.
He replied this morning
Hello Alex
I can imagine why you may have been asked to do this.

Suppose I remove the link, and you in return acknowledge on your own site that whatever you may yourself may have been brought up to believe, there are many christadelphians, and other christians, who do not believe a lot of unscientific baloney about a 6000 year old earth,etc, but who honestly and rationally interpret their Biblical text in a way consistent with the facts of science?


Needless to say I was not impressed….
I’ve not been ‘asked’ to do anything, I am very angry that you’ve attempted to pull me into your argument. Is this your attempt to sow discord between myself and my parents? Or did you think bringing me into things would take some heat off you? 
Whatever your motives are, I cannot fully express how angry I am that you’ve dragged my name into your dispute, 
If you have a shred of decency I will expect to see the link removed immediately 

To be honest I think I was being more than fair. I don’t want to be involved in some argument that I couldn’t care less about. Anyway, I waited to see if David would display some honour….that wait was in vain.

I should be surprised if it needs me to engender discord given the contrasting views of you and your parents on matters of religion.  I haven’t ‘dragged your name’ into anything, merely cited your blog as an example of a former C’dn who now writes in the strongest terms against belief.  However, I’ve suggested a quid pro quo, and look forward to your answer to it.



A ‘quid pro quo’?? David, please tell me, why would I be even REMOTELY interested in doing you a favour?? I made my feelings clear in my reply….

No ‘quid pro quo’ will be entered into. I left the church because I didn’t agree with their beliefs, and I don’t agree with yours…
if you don’t agree with the core beliefs of the CDs i suggest you join another sect that does.
It is my belief that you’ve dragged me into this in an attempt to get at my father. I find this offensive in the extreme…
You’ve crossed the line David, and i now consider you an appropriate subject for my blog. If you wish to avoid further embarrassment for your brethren in [your church] I suggest you immediately remove all reference to my blog, and retract your attempt to bring me into the
whole sordid affair.
This is your last chance.

That was this morning, and the link is still there on his blog. So I’ve taken several actions that I’m not going to outline here, and am posting this final reply to David as an open letter so everyone can see how I feel about this person…


Your lack of reply, coupled with the fact that you are still linking to my blog from your online whine leads me to believe that you are utterly dishonourable, and only interested in point scoring. I gave you a chance to prevent my interactions with you becoming known, you have blown it. I’ve already spoken to my father, and emailed my mother, and will be passing all the information I have about your bad science and even worse theology.

You’ve made the mistake of assuming that I would side with you just because you pay lip service to science in the the bizarre ID inspired nonsense you preach. But when given the choice between two sides that I think are profoundly wrong, I will (like most people) side with family, especially if the other side has already tried to use me as a pawn.

Your attempt to discredit my parents via me is both transparent and underhand, and has catastrophically relied on your wrong assumption of there being some great estrangement between myself and them – I’d have thought you’d have realised, when I refused to get drawn into your nonsense back in April, that this is not the case.

It is my belief that you, Jon and David Burke, Ken Gilmour, and the rest of the BioLogos mob (or whatever you’re calling yourselves) fail at both theology and biology. From what I’ve read of your beliefs, your understanding of evolution is weak, whilst your ability to have faith in the word of the god you claim to follow is almost non-existent. Unable to muster the courage to believe one thing or the other, you exist in a weird limbo, a member of neither the ‘faith’ group or the ‘science’ group. I would suggest you need to make your mind up, either you believe in the data science gives you, or you believe in the word of your god, this wishy washy ‘halfway between’ is intellectual cowardice.

Ultimately, you have turned someone who was interested only in not being involved into someone who is now inclined to offer support to those who oppose you. Well done.


So there you go, try to play me, I will play you right back. I will NOT be used as a pawn in an argument that has nothing to do with me.

Take that as a warning.

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